Saturday, February 13, 2010

Sermons from Barney Fife on Valentines Day



Valentines Day is a day of love and a day where lovers have the wonderful opportunity of showing their love to that someone special. It isn’t just for lovers though, it is for anyone who is deserving of that love, a child, a parent, a friend, a family member, a coworker a fellow church member.

You know Ol Pastor Barney never had much of a problem in telling others that he loved them, just like us though, sometimes it was a little embarrassing when others noticed that love. I think we are all like that a little bit, maybe we are a little embarrassed to say, ‘I love you,’ or to hold hands in public, or to even give that hug.

We can learn a lot from Barn on this, he is willing to go that extra mile and use those important 3 words, ‘I love you,’ but better than that, he is willing to show it in unique and special ways. Are we? Are we willing to tell and show our friends at church, at work, in our family, or even our spouse or lover? Why or why not?

What do you think? Can you share special tender moments of how others have showed you love, or how you have maybe showed someone else love? Why celebrate this love on just one day of the year? Heck, ol Barn showed those he loved every day he was alive. Maybe we can do the same.

To watch the following video, just click on the video. If the video don’t appear, click on the following link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yHuv0tufcE



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Friday, February 12, 2010

Barney Fife on Rules


Sermons From Pastor Barney Fife
Rules



Pastor Barney Fife comes to us today after a longer than desired absence to provide us another thought provoking, albeit brief sermon. Today’s message is on rules: Did you ever notice that religious people seem to have an awful lot of them? How do you respond to all the ‘rules’ that people put before you? Are there good rules? Are there bad rules? Are there ever unwritten rules? Are there even rules that people sort of make-up that aren’t really rules at all?

How do you think we should present the rules if there are rules? Are there good ways? Are there bad ways? Heck, do you ever wonder what the rules are for? I have to admit it, I wonder about these things and more all of the time.

You know in the Old Testament there are so many rules one quickly wonders if it impossible to live by those rules. It amazes me how some people encourage the enforcement of some of those rules, and then kind of ignore the other ones, you know, ones like sacrificing animals and even boiling and eating children. Then there are the rules in the New Testament, some say they were in addition to the rules in the Old Testament which kind of made things even more difficult. I have to tell you, I really like Jesus’ approach to all of the rules; he kind of like ol Barney Fife narrowed it down to two rules. Anyone know what they are? What are your thoughts on them? We’ll give it some time and see if people can come up with the 2 rules Jesus spoke about and then go from there. Now it is always expected, hoped for, and appreciated when you give your response.

To see Pastor Barney Fife talk about this, well just go click on the video below, if it don’t appear, just click on the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtsvsLFYYSg


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Monday, February 8, 2010

Transfer Growth In The Church, Are We Breaking Jesus Heart?

I find myself in a strange predicament. I am the pastor of an online church that was started out of the recognition to bring people together who were not involved in a physical brick and mortar church. As a part of our efforts, we recognized that many Christians were leaving their churches, some for good reason, some for unbiblical reasons, and we also realized that many individuals for whatever reason had made a commitment to Christ while at the same time, not plugging into a church. There was a third mission concept that was to also be an honest point of conversation for those who were seeking or searching for spiritual truth. Now this is going to be a rather long article, but I challenge individuals to read it, think about it, pray about it and then process it as opposed to doing what many will likely do, that is respond negatively without actually thinking about the premise I present.

Recently, actually over the last two years I have also had two specific areas that I have spent a great deal of study on, one is the incarnation of Christ and the responsibility of his followers to incarnate to those on our planet, which I won’t discuss here, but the second area I do intend to discuss is the concept of transfer growth and the growth of the mega church movement, specific to America. That area of discussion will be controversial because there will be individuals and churches that are challenged that what they have done has in fact hurt this religious organization we call Christianity more than it has helped it, and in fact, in many cases, it may very well have sinned. Now at this point, I realize two things, one; people may quit reading, and two; there may be an assumption that I am saying this applies to all mega churches and that all people who have transferred are wrong, or bad. Neither of these assumptions is true. There are wonderful, in fact excellent mega churches and there are many appropriate reasons to transfer from one church to another, even sometimes a mega church. Of course on these things I am speaking of what I call brick and mortar churches.

I need to give clarification related to The Virtual Pew, it is our intent as a ministry, from day one to discover and recommend real brick and mortar churches for those a part of The Virtual Pew experience. It has even been a blessing to see the brick and mortar church I pastor benefit from people discovering this ministry through the internet, using it, and then starting to attend or visit Mosaic in Wichita. It is our hope for those a part of The Virtual Pew, for those that can, and are able, to plug those individuals into a brick and mortar church.

Before going into my diatribe there are three books and sources I use for support and have based the basis of my opinions. While they aren’t the only three, they are three very good ones. I would encourage any person, or pastor of any church wanting to truly examine the concept presented here to read these books. They are well sourced in their research and reasoning. They are, William Chadwick’s, Stealing Sheep, The Problem With Transfer Growth in America, George Barna’s, Revolution, and thirdly and most importantly, The Holy Bible.

First point of contention, something I have had to learn in life, just because you do something, or do it because it is the way you have seen it done before, is what you believe to be the way it has always been, or the way your church does it, doesn’t make it Biblical or God’s way. We have to understand this when looking at this subject. For the follower of Jesus, the Bible has to be the ultimate authority; any other authority is flawed and not dependable. I don’t care how many books have been written on church growth, and who wrote those books, what I do care about, is what does the Bible say, and what is the evidence related to how the church has ‘reportedly’ grown over the last years.

Of course many individuals, even those in churches, won’t see it this way no matter what the research or Bible says, to those, I think there are more important underlying problems in relation to your faith. Please understand, I am not saying don’t disagree with me; just support your disagreement with the Bible. If you can’t do it, then I question where your reasoning comes from. I will say that on this point of debate, I have had many disagree with me; I have yet to see Biblical support and reasoning to support their views. Those are the types of things that give me concern. I simply refuse to carry on a logical debate with illogical reasoning or opinions not supported with evidence and proof. I am asking you to read this with an open mind, and as scripture says, to ask the Holy Spirit to give you ears to hear what the Spirit would say to the church.

As stated, I have done a lot of study on this, don’t take my word for it, check out the three sources I mention, (I only mention 3 to make it easy to get started as two of those are well sourced.) It is also acceptable to present other research, either agreeing with, or disagreeing with the premise I make. I am trying to present my argument with facts, and clear Biblical texts and concepts, I even purchased one of the books I use as a source here when someone presented their argument to sway and change my own belief on this subject from where it was to where it is now. That’s right, my position on this argument was challenged by someone and I took their challenge seriously. I changed my mind and my original position on this issue was wrong.

I ask you to use reason as well. Why? Quite simply, I believe the way most churches encourage growth to be one of the great sins of the church, specific to America but not limited there. If Jesus mission and purpose was to seek and save the lost, the church may have lost the primary focus and intent of the very mission Jesus called us to. The truth is, while many things matter in life, nothing is as important as the need to present The Good News with a Lost and Dying World, especially if Jesus and the writers of the New Testament (and I believe Old Testament) has as a point of purpose, the desire to show us how to reach the world around us with the love of Christ. While discipleship concepts (how to grow in our faith and be more like Jesus) certainly occur in scripture, we must remember what that growth involves, it involves and requires us better being able to reach others with the message of Christ, not sitting on our bums acting like we know more, and are better than the very people Jesus died for.

First to dispel some thought as to people thinking I may be negative towards mega churches. I will specifically mention three that I think have done an excellent job, two of those I have visited and one of those which is local. I will also mention a specific organization and some of the excellent teaching coming out of that organization. I know there will be some of the more conservative cliental who will blast me for supporting two of these churches as it seems to be easy to blast other churches. I have a saying that when it comes to being critical of churches, pastors and so forth, we better be careful. I have said for several years now, you can say anything about me and I won’t react nearly as harshly as if you say something critical about my wife. Say something about me, I’ll deal with it, say something about my wife, it is all I can do to keep from busting you in the nose. On this point, remember, the church is the bride of Christ which he loves passionately. We are to love her, care for her and be passionate about her, even when as the whore in Hosea; she goes against the things true marriage and relationship are for. That does not mean we don’t correct her, challenge her, and desire for her to be the very things she is intended to be, this is especially so in regards to the church.

Before saying something about the mega churches I like, let me give a point of clarity. Many say the church isn’t a building, a location but a people. While there is total truth in that, we must also understand The Bible gives clear indication that the church is also a local body of believers. One of the organizations I love, one I believe has done a great job at planting churches is World Impact. I have heard Fred Stoesz state something like, the church, whether the small home church, the upstart growing inner city church, or the large mega church is still the church and complete in the things God desires for them to be, having the potential to be all God wants them to be. I agree with this, but I also believe it is critical the body comes together to be the body of Christ, loving and growing together, and reaching out to their own, starting with their own Jerusalem, family and neighborhood, then to Judea, Samaria, and to the ends of the earth, but it starts at home.

Now on the above paragraph, I have unfortunately learned much of what I know from the mistakes I have made, even the sins I have committed. It wasn’t enjoyable, fun or positive, outside of the need and realization that I needed to change my ways and have the guts to admit where I was wrong, and go and do the right things from there. Unfortunately, while God has forgiven me for my mistakes in this area, while I have forgiven myself, I know others were hurt so deeply that it has been difficult for them to forgive me. I think if we are honest, many of us will find ourselves in the same scenario.

Now the agencies and churches I think have done a good job. The first is a Para church organization I have already mentioned, World Impact. They are doing an excellent job at helping start and develop churches with a model concept unique to each of the churches I am going to mention.

There is also a sister church of Mosaic in the Wichita area, that I can speak highly of, it is Hope Community Church in Andover Kansas. They have a tremendous ministry to the Biker community and have done some incredible ministry. Their ministry from their very roots was to minister to those often neglected by the church.

These next two will be churches some will be critical of; they are similar in some ways but different in others. But I have a tremendous amount of respect for Willow Creek in Chicago, led by pastor Bill Hybels, and Saddleback in California. These churches understand and have worked at maintaining small groups in their church, but have grown to unbelievable numbers with an unbelievable impact. Rick Warren in his book The Purpose Driven Life has used more scripture to support and encourage in his book of any book outside of the Bible I have ever seen. Bill Hybels recognized and offered a form of a public apology and request for forgiveness for not being clearer on certain aspects related to the church and the mission of Christ.

There is a unique attribute that despite the criticism of at least 2 of these churches disturbs me. Despite the criticism, despite the numbers that attend these churches, the overwhelming majority of growth for these two churches is from people who have made first time decisions to follow Jesus Christ as their Leader and Forgiver, their Lord and Savior. The reality of what constitutes salvation is as solid as the most conservative of groups, yet, the majority of criticism seems to be based on jealousy or laziness to grow ones own church.

Let me be clear with a brief statement; every church should equip their people to grow in their faith, to ultimately reach as many people as possible with the message of Jesus. In other words, we are to be about growing the church. For many, they will start new home groups, as they should as the home church is a fully functional, acceptable church we see in scripture. It means the small country church, should be growing, the inner city urban church should be growing, the church in the suburbs needs to grow, why? The mission Jesus called us to is to reach those who don’t know him. I challenge, the ability to reach those who don’t know Jesus, is the one thing we can’t do in Heaven as it is too late. It is the one thing that holds the most importance to our walk with Christ; it is the very purpose of which Jesus came to this planet. While other countries have issue with too much emphasis on self, Jesus made it clear, love our Lord our God with all our hearts, souls, mind and strength, and love our neighbor as ourselves, of all of the commandments there are none greater than these two, and when we have kept these two, we have kept them all. If we have family that will not experience the joy, the life that Jesus has for them and don’t share that love with them, and try to reach them in a loving caring way, I have to question where ones priorities are.

The Bible uses metaphor all through out; one of the amazing concepts of metaphor is in relation to family. There is ‘The Bride of Christ,’ ‘The Family of God,’ ‘Children,’ ‘Babes,’ ‘Brothers and Sisters,’ ‘like a child,’ ‘little children,’ and the list goes on. The concept of family is clear, and evident, by intent. Yet I question, has our society, has our generation so perverted this concept that we easily accept non traditional and non biblical positions because it is what we have become accustomed to and have learned to accept. I am not talking about following cultural traditions, heck if you know me, have seen me you know I am not into that. I have long hair, body piercing, tattoos, and more. Those are cultural things, but there are clear guidelines and concepts that are consistent from Genesis to Revelation, on those points, I believe, the intent hasn’t changed, how we follow or don’t follow them has changed.

I appreciate the teachings of the late Francis Schaeffer. Among those concepts the approach of logic and reason is critically important. I think that is true of others like C.S. Lewis, but also old time preachers like Charles Haddon Spurgeon and even, J. Vernon McGee. In looking at their teachings you can’t help but notice their deep appreciation and admiration of God’s power, the sacrifice to follow the ultimate truth of Scripture, but also the reasoning involved in looking at the world around them. God is complete, and true, not just an idea. The Bible is a guide, researched, ridiculed, but in all situations, held true and proven. I realize a great deal of debate could take place here, that is not the intent and I will monitor the discussions that take place to prevent the rabbit trails as much as possible. But we have to use the brains God gave us, think about the scenarios presented and come to the conclusions with the help of the Holy Spirit, and the supports of The Holy Bible, as to what is and is not truth.

I could do a book on this subject, maybe someday I will, but for now, I want to keep it as simple as possible to encourage thought and discussion. Here is the first question though as presented in the book ‘Stealing Sheep by William Chadwick.’ Where in the Bible are we told to grow the church by transfer growth? In fact, can we find a single incident of transfer growth taking place or being encouraged in the Bible?

One of the things that often comes up is Paul, but a reminder about Paul and others. Paul and others in Scripture where in many ways church plant pastors, pastors evangelists, and missionaries who had as a purpose the need to go to other locations to either start up other churches, or to assist churches that existed. Now if this is what one wants to do, that is help start other churches, to assist developing and new churches, great. Maintain the association with a home base, like Paul, makes sure you follow the Biblical model in this process. World Impact has some great teaching on this concept. I believe an even better model is the model used in missions, for the inner city church, I especially like the foreign mission model better than the traditional home mission model.

In the New Testament, you don’t see an example per say of one person leaving from one church to another because of dissatisfaction. What you do see, even in difficult times, is the need to stay put and work at bringing about needed changes. You see this with the woman at the well, legion, in Paul’s writings to various individuals including Philemon, Titus and Timothy and other places. You also see the church challenged in the book of Revelations. Those admonitions from John are clear, bring about change, don’t run away.

Another thing that often comes up is people stating the Bible talks about the Universal Church, the church as a whole and not per say local individual churches. I have to question, for people taking this position, have you ever studied the history of the church, or ever read the book of Acts where we hear specifically about the home church? It is clear, that while there are instructions given to the larger church as a whole, there is also specific instruction to local churches and those churches met in the homes of people. It is here we see the concepts many long for and are presented with especially well in home churches and small groups. You see a process where people develop real relationships that resemble real family. You see real commitment; real covenant and a real love. It is here every need can be met from finance, to support. The larger Church can provide larger needs, needs like Health Care, home foreclosure, and more.

We have clear evidence that while we see the larger Universal Church, we also see the local community church. Some may bring up an argument I have heard, “Well but I am just going to a church in the same city, I’m not really leaving the church.” On this point, it isn’t about a proximity thing as much as it is a commitment and relationship thing; it is about this concept presented all through scripture called community. The population base is one of those things that are not consistent with the population aspects in Scripture. There may be more people that live in the small state of Kansas then lived in the whole Middle East during Jesus time. The commitment to the body, that enables the body to do the work of the body, including displaying real love, real community with each other is critical if we are to be effective in the ministry of reaching others, or for that matter, helping each other grow in our faith to where we can put those concepts into practice. When the Church shows no better community than the world offers, then why would we expect them to follow what we have to offer? Through the struggles that often occur is where true growth takes place. We know those concepts to be true, but unfortunately, many in the church runs from that responsibility, and the local church, even many mega churches, encourage some to run from one place to another without ever going through the process needed for growth.

Here is a sad reality in today’s world, a person’s word, a person’s commitment, contract and so forth means so little because people as a whole, don’t value those concepts. In a world where we celebrate songs that emphasize how it is “all about me” or to “each his own”, or even, “it’s about time I got some for my own.” You have to wonder where is the attitude of Jesus of serving and loving others, even in tough times, especially those who are supposed to be our brothers or sisters, who we have a commitment to who are babes in Christ, and well, maybe from here you get my point. In a world where Christians have shown for example their commitment to marriage (our divorce rate is higher than non Christians) is lacking, is it any wonder our relation to each other, where a covenant commitment is made is also lacking. In a world where many are more committed to a fast food restaurant than are committed to the body of Christ is there any wonder the research shows so many people no longer attend a brick and mortar church? If we want to know the problem with the church and how we are not growing universally, many of us need to listen to and hear the words from the prophet Michael Jackson, all we have to do is look at ‘The man (or woman) in the mirror.’ When it comes to honoring commitment, to respecting a covenant or contract, I am so glad that God doesn’t just quit on us like we often times quit on his bride.

With transfer growth comes a lack of commitment, and more importantly and even more dangerously, an unwillingness to be obedient and accountable to leadership and others that we have previously made a commitment to. Now without mentioning names, let me share of experiences as an example. I have seen and experienced people that supposedly were a part of the church I pastor. Of those people, I can specifically think of 4 who transferred out in an appropriate way. They let me know about it in advance, they let the body know specifically what was going on, and those individuals maintained relationship with many in the church. There was one family that relocated due to health issues and getting older and wanting to be closer to family to deal with issues. This family lived some miles from the church. The other family followed the same concepts and was searching. This family with the dynamics of being the former pastor felt it important to move on. Now because I believe both followed a Biblical model, I think I can honestly say, it is as if they never left us, they are still a part of our family. I still keep in touch with these individuals and they have been supportive of what we are doing. The others who left the church, 5 of them (adults plus their children) just quit. I did out reach no response, more outreach, and no response. I challenge, the other churches that received these people into fellowship, without contact with us to work things out, to make sure God was in the process, that the needs of those we call brothers and sisters, including the church was met and being taken care of was just as much at fault. I can almost here people saying here, “Am I responsible for other churches?” It is kind of like the question asked Jesus, “Am I my brothers keeper?” The response would be the same, “you betcha!”

Mosaic had some people visit our church recently from another church. One of the pastors of that church has provided some help and counsel to me over the last year. The couple from that church made mention to me of possibly starting to come to Mosaic on a regular basis. As a small church, growth is important. In talking to them I realized it would be good for them to meet with their pastor, share their heart, and share their concerns. I think they owed that to their former church, as do all members and participants in church, and I think the church, out of respect of the call God has on her, also had the responsibility to do what was best for that family. That whole thing is still in progress, but I will say this, whether the family decides to associate with Mosaic or not is not nearly as important as the institution and bride of Christ be allowed to do her job. If they come to Mosaic, great, we followed a Biblical concept. If they decide to stay at their former church, great, they have resolved issues and people who know them and love them can continue to be a part of their lives. In either result the people are built up and we have made the effort to do what God expects.

There was an old concept that at one time I didn’t like, that was the transfer of membership by letter of recommendation from a person’s old church. I think the more I think of this, the more I like that process, not because of anything other than it helps the local church, make sure that other local churches are following through with their responsibilities, and it helps make sure that what is best for the person is taking place. It also helps give clarity and the best understanding of the needs of the person coming into the church, or leaving the church, all concepts that any family member would follow through on with their children as they go to college, move on in life in marriage and so forth. Yet it continues, as if we just turn them loose and then wonder why the status is no different in their lives than the lives of those outside the church.

Unfortunately, people make excuses to not honor commitments; there is lack of vision or the unwillingness to persevere. An example from personal experience is people who left church due to needing more for their children (I have actually heard this several times at two different churches, from numerous people, and even other churches). These people often make commitments to be a part of the body, to be involved in ministry, to take on leadership, and more, yet if they would have stayed around, many churches, including ours would be larger with vibrant youth and children’s ministries much larger than now, and at Mosaic us having 2 services and ready to plant another church. While we are working towards that, and about ready to go to our second service now, it hasn’t happened yet in part because some couldn’t persevere, honor their word, and stick it out 6 more months.

There are also people who leave because they got mad at something the pastor or someone else in the church said. Of course the application of the very clear Biblical instruction from Matthew 18 never takes place, instead gossip ensues, people leave and fellowship is broken and hearts broken, all with an attitude displayed by actions, that people just don’t seem to care. One has to ask, if a family don’t care about each other, if a brother doesn’t care about a sister, how much are they really committed to the directives by Christ? When following the Matthew 18 concept, reconciliation takes place, (which is a prevalent theme in church relations), and literally 90% of the time or more you find out that what you thought you heard is not what you heard or was intended at all. I am not exaggerating here; I have personally had more people make excuses as to why we can’t follow this concept than I have actually follow through with it. Are we teaching our gospel, or the Gospel of Jesus? Thank God we don’t use this concept in our families, oh, wait a second; we likely do which is why our divorce rate is so high and our families are often times falling a part. For Christians, we need ask ourselves as to whom we are to preach about morality when we practice things like this that tears apart the church, and shows the lack of love and compassion towards each other. There may be a reason we don’t want to accept when we look at things like the divorce rate among married Christians is higher than the divorce rate among married Atheists.

Here is my challenge to those involved in a church. Take seriously your commitment to the Bride of Christ, not just the Universal Church, but the local church which is admonished to carry out the mission of Christ to their unique ministries and locations. Realize that God’s church is complete from the small house church to the large mega church. We all have the mission to disciple each other so we can be effective in reaching those who don’t know Jesus. There is another challenge though, that is a challenge to other churches, which should be in this work together as opposed to individual isolated institutions.

Make sure that people, especially those coming from other churches, are doing what is necessary to follow Biblical directives of making things right with their former church. It is rather clear actually, if individuals are allowed to carry on bad practices of doing things that the Bible clearly don’t support, your church, my church, but more importantly, the Church of Christ will have problems and our witness will not be as effective. Encourage reconciliation. In this recommendation to other churches, make sure your primary if not only method of church growth that is promoted and practiced is based on new growth, in other words, reaching those not in church, and those who need the message of Christ. To be intentional about how you do this, you have to also be intentional about taking the responsibility to not grow your church in the wrong way. Make sure your advertising, your sermons, your mission, your programs all understand this and take the concept of new birth seriously. Make sure these issues are addressed and reconciliation, when need be, occurs prior to acceptance of membership. That is after all, something a loving family would do.

Thirdly, I ask both individuals who have transferred from one church to another, especially in the same town, and to churches which have allowed this practice to take place. Get on your knees or on your face before God in prayer and ask him if you can support your actions with the support of what is clearly provided in Scripture. Have we, any of us, done more to hurt the healing, the potential, the mission of the church than we have helped it? What is there we can do to make things right, not just for us, but the witness and the deserving respect that Jesus Bride deserves?

I lastly make this request for those at other churches when you clearly did wrong in the way the transfer took place. I wouldn’t ask, nor expect you to go back to your former church, but can you make the commitment to help the church you are in be the very bride of Christ he desires for her to be as opposed to presenting the image of the whore of Hosea? Can we represent a body that resembles family, of loving even in difficulty, being committed during hard times, and following through to provide the hope of the future and the eternal love of God?

As stated before I believe this is a serious sin of the church as many of us have redirected our efforts away from sharing the message of Jesus with those who need to hear that message. I also believe, we can all, including me, do better in this area. Barna’s research is not only scary it should be alarming to help us understand that while larger mega churches are growing in numbers, the smaller churches are dying, there should be no glory or joy in that. God forgive the ones of us who just moves on like this is no big deal. None of us can take satisfaction in that, not carrying about that reality. We have to be concerned that the actual number of people attending church is drastically declining, even among those following strict guidelines as to who is and is not a Christian from traditional and yes, even conservative standards. Some take satisfaction and joy with this; I can’t believe Jesus is one of them. In a world that needs community so much, it seems as if the church and those who call themselves Christian or followers of Jesus, may be on the forefront promoting isolation. I challenge that concept is never supported with Scripture, I wonder why those of us who are the Church, and in the church allow the practices to continue that encourage it.

Can we do better? You bet we can! Will we do better? I pray so because souls depend on it, and Christ deserves a totally unblemished bride.

For the following, click on the video to watch, if the video doesn't appear, click on the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKtgUjP3Saw


Click here to follow The Virtual Pew on Twitter

Mike Furches on Faceboook.

Click here to visit Mosaic Wichita, the Church in Wichita Kansas where Mike is the pastor.

Click Here to Go to The Virtual Pew Daily Verse and Read The Bible in a Year Passages

Click here for booking information to have Pastor Mike come speak or perform, from speaking to music or magic, something for all groups.

You can also Help The Virtual Pew by shopping on our web site or at Amazon, click here to shop at Amazon and help The Virtual Pew, it won't cost you anything extra, but we get a small percentage of the purchase.

Click to visit with Pastor Mike regarding any of your needs. He will respond to each request personally, and if need be refer you to one of our other pastors.

Click to visit and join the new group The Virtual Pew, at MySpace. Become a part of a different kind of Christian group, check out the page for more information,all welcome, including those who are not followers of Jesus.

Click to visit the Virtual Pew Website and become a part of that ministry.

Click to subscribe to my blog

Click to visit and join our sister group at MySpace Hollywood Jesus.

Click to visit Mary Jane Furches' new MySpace Page

Now for those that do not know, make sure you check out the numerous articles and blogs by checking out the archives. If visiting The Virtual Pew or MySpace they are archived on the left hand side of the page. Scroll down to where you see newer or older listed under archives and then click there. There are hundreds of postings so make sure to check out the archives. You can also contact me for a free e-book pre edit version of The Keystone Kid at mike@thevirtualpew.comYou can visit http://www.thevirtualpew.com/ and on the front page down on the left side you sill see our store. Your purchase provides needed funds to The Virtual Pew. If you do not see something to purchase you can click on the search engine, (do not put anything in the search box at this time). You will be taken to Amazon where you can search for anything you desire. Hopefully you will consider a gift to The Virtual Pew.

Now I get asked this quite often, Can we repost your blogs or articles? The short answer to that is, what an honor that you would ask, and by all means, spread the word.Here is our contact information

The Virtual Pew
P.O. Box 17731
Wichita, KS 67217

Click on the following links to learn more about The Virtual Pew

Donations to The Virtual Pew

The Virtual Pew

The Virtual Pew Blog

Personal Furches Web Site

Mary Jane Furches MySpace Page

Mike Furches MySpace Page

Mike Furches MySpace Blog

Hollywood Jesus

Reviews With Mike

The Virtual Pew Sermons

The Virtual Pew News

MySpace Hollywood Jesus Group

MySpace The Virtual Pew Group

The Virtual Pew Live Radio Web Page

To Subscribe to The Virtual Pew Live Feed

Saturday, January 16, 2010

A One on One with Dr. Anthony Campolo on the Arts

I recently had the chance to speak with Dr. Anthony Campolo regarding the arts and the influence of the arts on today’s society. We spoke about other things, like how the church or community of faith can use the arts to reach a secular society and the role they have played in relation to God. For those that know me, you will be surprised, surprised at how little I actually say in the interview. It was a rare opportunity and Dr. Campolo had a lot to say. I didn’t want to interrupt him so I let him go.

Dr. Campolo is a widely respected theologian who has written various books including: Red Letter Christians, The God of Intimacy and Action, Letters to a Young Evangelical (The Art of Mentoring), Things We Wish We Had Said, Church Enslaved: A Spirituality For Racial Reconciliation, and many more. He has appeared in such films as Lord Save Us From Your Followers, and been on countless television and radio programs. While a professor at Eastern University, he has lectured across the globe. It may surprise some at the perspectives Dr. Campolo takes regarding the arts in its various forms. I hope you enjoy this as much as I did, sit back, relax, and enjoy. (note this is not the interview in its entirety, but does hit on the highlights of our conversation.)

Mike: Hi Dr. Campolo, this is Mike Furches in Wichita Kansas.

Dr. Anthony Campolo: How are you doing? How is the weather in Wichita?

Mike: Not too bad it is about 50 degrees today so not too bad.

Dr. Anthony Campolo: Oh Gee, your lucky. Every place I’ve been going lately is around zero, man you’re lucky.

Mike: Well we were about 4 degrees and 10 below zero last week. You’re coming to Wichita in the near future aren’t you?

Dr. Anthony Campolo: Yes I am

Mike: I’m looking forward to seeing you when you get here. A friend of ours, Mark Hollingsworth told me to make sure I said hi to you.

Dr. Anthony Campolo: Yea I was just with him a few days ago, I guess around 10 days ago in Nashville. He’s a very special person.

Mike: Today I wanted to specifically look at the influence of the arts on a contemporary and secular society and how it is that the faith community can use the arts to make a difference for people.

How do you see the importance of the arts in the eyes of God?

Dr. Anthony Campolo: Well first of all God is an artist, he is a creator. When we are exercising our creative juices we are imitating God. It is apart of what it means to be in the image of God, to be creative. Creativity can be expressed in music, in storytelling, in drama, poetry and more. Obviously Jesus himself was an incredible artist. It tells in one place in scripture that everything he taught he taught in parables. When he wasn’t speaking in parables, he didn’t say much at all. The scripture says that everything he taught he taught in parables, which is story, an obvious art form. Jesus artistically communicated the Gospel.

Mike: So you would say the Biblical examples of that would be like in Gospel book of Mark where it says, ‘He never taught them anything without first telling them stories.”

Dr. Anthony Campolo: Right, that’s correct.

Mike: So would you say movies, music, television, those types of things are a contemporary form of storytelling?

Dr. Anthony Campolo: There is no question that when we come to sharing the Gospel we must bring every skill, every creative gift, and every innovative technique that is possible. Let’s use everything that we can in all ways and in all manners to do our best to communicate the story of Jesus.

Mike: What are some ways you’ve seen the church actually use the arts in the sharing of Christ with people?

Dr. Anthony Campolo: Well, there is many ways of looking at the arts. First of all are the overt signals as Jesus did much of the time when communicating the Gospel in an artistic fashion. You can do that with Christian paintings, Christian movies, Christian Concerto’s, or Classic Gospel songs. These are all overt methods that tell the story of Jesus.

But there are other ways of looking at the arts. For instance the question is always raised, ‘what about non Christian artists? Can we use them?’ The answer to that is very important. People like Steinbeck, people like JD Salinger, these people say some things that we need to hear, but mainly, Tennessee Williams would be considerable. These people tell the story of Jesus. What these people often do, brilliantly, is give a very good, and bad description of what life is like without Christ. They really capture the meaninglessness of life apart from God.

Learning from people who are as atheistic as Jean-Paul Sartre and others including Nietzsche’s writings. These are antichristian writers in many instances, but what they do very brilliantly is they make us very aware of what life is like without God, without faith, without a quality of scripture. What is life like from that point of view? Insured, if our task is to speak to the millions of people apart from Christ, we need to know what their needs are and we need to preach the Gospel to those who are outside of the household of faith. We need to know what they are going through. What their emotions are, what their anxieties are. The other thing is what they are experiencing in their lives. We cannot project what we think they are experiencing. We must listen to them and we must respond to the reality of their existential situation. We can reach souls from learning from them.

The arts are very very crucial from that point of view. I know that when we’re working with a group of people who would be called secular. There will be Christians who have made all these plays. They have really pulled these bits of life that we have lived, that we have imitated on the surface because of God. Then the play is over. The characters come out, sit on the stage and the discussion moves forward. Then that is an excellent opportunity to say what life is like apart from God and in response, hope is the answer to the worrying needs of the people in the face of life.

Another thing that the arts do and another reason the secular artist has to be taken seriously is because, it should be noted they paint a picture of the church. You know we protect ourselves with lots of good friends, but to look inside what the secular world sees in us has to be taken seriously.

As a young man I remember very well reading the Sinclair Lewis book Elmer Gantry. I remember the way in which this slick new writer viewed evangelism. It viewed the way evangelist behaved on the circuit. That’s important for us to think, we need to see ourselves as people do that are apart from the faith. We will find the truth of how others see us. We need this because they see through us and see the shortcomings of us, but we’re not aware of how their knowledge of us can help us. To see those things in us that we need to see if we are to become better communicators of the Gospel. To see the examples of what a Christian should be in the eyes of the world.

Mike: It is like what you see in the film, Lord Save Us From Your Followers, the film you are in. Some of the comments in there talk about how we aren’t listening to each other and don’t understand the secular community.

Dr. Anthony Campolo: It’s what people feel about us. That movie Lord Save Us From Your Followers is pretty straight forward. People on the outside can say, this is what we see is wrong with you.

A good artist however does more than just tell us what’s wrong with us. A good artist gives us a sense of how the world outside of the church feels about us. They are emotionally reacting which may be even more important. They have the intellectual critiquing.

Mike: Do you see the church of doing a good job of using the arts right now? Or even listening to the community telling us what they are telling us?

Dr. Anthony Campolo: I think we’re doing a pretty good job of using the arts to communicate the Gospel. I mean if we look at Willow Creek, their morning worship service is very artistically designed, with drama, with skits, with good music. I think that from that respect, in regards to telling our message to the world, I think we are using the arts very effectively.

Shadowlands is a movie, Lord of the Flies, Lord of the Rings, the C.S. Lewis movies, all of these become great instruments. The Passion of Christ, my goodness, what an effective instrument that was at communicating the Gospel. The Jesus film that went all over Africa and still goes around Africa, the powerful impact and huge numbers of people coming to know Christ. In so far as we’re using the arts to tell our story to the world, we’re really pretty good at it.

In listening to what the world has to say to us through their arts, in interpreting it, in critiquing and reflecting on it. We’re not doing much of that at all. For instance, I could go on for at least 20 minutes talking about the way in which we could read JD Salinger’s book The Catcher in the Rye. You’d say, wow, that has a lot of insight that Christians need to pay attention to. The Christians response to JD Salinger was to not allow Salinger to speak to us and to teach us some things that we need to learn, but to say we want to ban the book from the library. (laughing) We’re great banners of books.

Mike: We even see some Christians doing that with the new current movie Avatar that are saying negative things about it.

Dr. Anthony Campolo: I didn’t realize that they have started picking on that.

Mike: Oh yea!

Dr. Anthony Campolo: So they’ve started picking on that?

Mike: It’s probably the most controversial review I have done in some time. Not sense Bruce Almighty have I done a review that was as controversial. It has the same type of criticism that ET and Star Wars had when they first came out. It’s getting blasted by a lot within the Christian community.

Dr. Anthony Campolo: Well the Christian community has a capacity to over estimate the influence of Satan.

Mike: Yea.

Dr. Anthony Campolo: There are two mistakes that can be made. One is to underestimate Satan and the work of the demonic in the world. Remember, it is not just God who works through the arts. The evil one has worked through the arts. I think that when we look at what has happened with teenagers we cannot separate the denigration of young people in today’s society from the kind of music that they listen to and the kind of movies they see, and the kind of television that they watch. I mean, there is no question that the evil one has brought these principalities and powers under control to serve his purposes. There is no question about that. So, let’s not underestimate Satan, but let’s not over estimate Satan either.

You know, you mentioned some films there that I find have very wholesome messages. ET certainly has a whole array of positive messages. There is what we call Christ figures in these people. You know there is that great word that says, if we do not declare the word of truth, yea, the very rocks will cry out. I can say that if we don’t speak the word of truth, the very rock stars will cry out. (laughing)

I think God is speaking in our time through the likes of Bono; as a matter of fact I am one of those strange people that really felt that Harry Potter had a powerful message, a message that Christians need to be facing. As you remember, the Harry Potter story, Harry is born in a lineage that is very evil, but when he goes away to this place where all these other young people who have these supernatural powers go for training, he has to make a choice. He can go with the bad group which is where his biological character would direct him, or he can go with the good group which he does choose to do. In the end, regardless of what evil tendencies that are born within your psyche, you are a free individual and you choose your destiny.

Secondly, it’s a good indication that no matter what forces molded you in the past through decision making. You’re able to transcend your origins and become a good person. Harry Potter does that. Now, that’s not a Christian message, but it certainly is a message that Christians can use, namely that we are not fatalistically controlled by our biological inheritance. All of us are in fact free to become what in fact by nature, or by socialization we have been conditioned to be. We are free human beings; we can in fact choose to be other than who we are. I think all through the Harry Potter story Harry and all his friends are confronted with moral decision making. I think we have to recognize that we have not put enough emphasis on moral decision making in our society. We see people as inevitably constructed by social forces when in reality their not.

Mike: Quick questions to finish up with. You’ve given me some great material that will be wonderful for people to read. Questions or comments though; your favorite movie and what would be your favorite CD?

Dr. Anthony Campolo: One CD, I mean, I’ve got to tell you, when it comes to CD’s; I love two kinds of music. I love Bill Gaither and Country Gospel and I am also really hooked on opera. Don’t try to explain how those two go together, but they are what speaks to me and what nurtures me.

Bill Gaither’s music always picks up my spirit. It causes me to think that there is something good and positive about to happen in my life. Opera always does what I think secular art should do; it introduces me to the deepest emotions of the human personality. In terms of a CD, that would have to be it.

In terms of reading I’m hooked on Fyodor Dostoyevsky, particularly The Brothers Karamazov which I think has more spiritual truth than almost any Christian book I have ever read.

Mike: And a movie or program if you were going to watch something?

Dr. Anthony Campolo: A movie I was going to watch? My favorite movie, and once again this isn’t going to sound very profound, it was My Fair Lady.

Mike: That’s one of my wife’s favorites.

Dr. Anthony Campolo: I love the music number one, and in terms of a musical on Broadway; there’s nothing that speaks more spiritual truth to me than Le Mis. That closing song of Le Mis should be sung in the church instead of some of the junk that we sing. I can almost hear Jesus singing that song. I don’t know whether you remember the words; ‘Who will be brave and stand with me. Who will join my crusade, for beyond the barricades is the world you wish would be. Can’t you hear them sing this song, can’t you hear them beat the drum. It’s the future that they bring when tomorrow comes.’ (Do You Hear the People Sing) I can almost hear Jesus pleading with people to respond to his call and to march in his crusade. The same with the Man of La Mancha; I think the song, to dream the impossible dream, to beat the unbeatable foe to strive with the last ounce of courage to go where the brave dare not go and the world would be richer for this. That one man, scorned and covered with scars, still strove, with his last ounce of courage, to reach, the unreachable star. I think we could use that song in missionary conferences to challenge young people to live heroically for Jesus.

Mike: To some of the folks that read this, maybe they’ll do just that. Dr. Campolo, thank you so much, what an honor and I look forward to seeing you in Wichita in the near future.

Dr. Anthony Campolo: Thank you Mike, hang in there.

The following is a video of those two songs Dr. Anthony Campolo would like us to see in the church as well as a bonus. Just click on the video to watch, if the video don’t appear, click on the link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgQgzKVX9jc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgIGfa0s1H8


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWYtkn_8D-g


Click here to follow The Virtual Pew on Twitter

Mike Furches on Faceboook.

Click here to visit Mosaic Wichita, the Church in Wichita Kansas where Mike is the pastor.

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Click here for booking information to have Pastor Mike come speak or perform, from speaking to music or magic, something for all groups.

You can also Help The Virtual Pew by shopping on our web site or at Amazon, click here to shop at Amazon and help The Virtual Pew, it won't cost you anything extra, but we get a small percentage of the purchase.

Click to visit with Pastor Mike regarding any of your needs. He will respond to each request personally, and if need be refer you to one of our other pastors.

Click to visit and join the new group The Virtual Pew, at MySpace. Become a part of a different kind of Christian group, check out the page for more information,all welcome, including those who are not followers of Jesus.

Click to visit the Virtual Pew Website and become a part of that ministry.

Click to subscribe to my blog

Click to visit and join our sister group at MySpace Hollywood Jesus.

Click to visit Mary Jane Furches' new MySpace Page

Now for those that do not know, make sure you check out the numerous articles and blogs by checking out the archives. If visiting The Virtual Pew or MySpace they are archived on the left hand side of the page. Scroll down to where you see newer or older listed under archives and then click there. There are hundreds of postings so make sure to check out the archives. You can also contact me for a free e-book pre edit version of The Keystone Kid at mike@thevirtualpew.comYou can visit http://www.thevirtualpew.com/ and on the front page down on the left side you sill see our store. Your purchase provides needed funds to The Virtual Pew. If you do not see something to purchase you can click on the search engine, (do not put anything in the search box at this time). You will be taken to Amazon where you can search for anything you desire. Hopefully you will consider a gift to The Virtual Pew.

Now I get asked this quite often, Can we repost your blogs or articles? The short answer to that is, what an honor that you would ask, and by all means, spread the word.Here is our contact information

The Virtual Pew
P.O. Box 17731
Wichita, KS 67217

Click on the following links to learn more about The Virtual Pew

Donations to The Virtual Pew

The Virtual Pew

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Mary Jane Furches MySpace Page

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Thursday, January 14, 2010

TVP Weight Loss and Conditioning Group

Some may not know but The Virtual Pew has recently started a group at Facebook titled, TVP Weight Loss and Conditioning Group. The group is a way to help others follow through on those New Years Resolutions to loose weight and get into better shape. The group offers ongoing support for those desiring to get and stay in shape as well as much more. Members in the group are encouraged to help each other out, post healthy recipes and more. Individuals can find out more by the group by visiting the site and then reading the information page. You can also go to the discussion page to see posted recipes. Melinda Ledman from Hollywood Jesus is also contributing and allowing use of her Daily Diet Devotions with the group. Currently there are members from around the world participating. This wonderful opportunity is in part the type of thing hoped for with the initial development of The Virtual Pew. This is a way to make contact with others online and find common ways to support and help each other. To participate in the group you will need to start a Facebook account, if already using Facebook you will simply have to click the join button. To visit the group directly just click on the following link.

http://www.facebook.com/inbox/?tid=1198009269642#/group.php?gid=400692670601

Click here to follow The Virtual Pew on Twitter

Mike Furches on Faceboook.

Click here to visit Mosaic Wichita, the Church in Wichita Kansas where Mike is the pastor.

Click Here to Go to The Virtual Pew Daily Verse and Read The Bible in a Year Passages

Click here for booking information to have Pastor Mike come speak or perform, from speaking to music or magic, something for all groups.

You can also Help The Virtual Pew by shopping on our web site or at Amazon, click here to shop at Amazon and help The Virtual Pew, it won't cost you anything extra, but we get a small percentage of the purchase.

Click to visit with Pastor Mike regarding any of your needs. He will respond to each request personally, and if need be refer you to one of our other pastors.

Click to visit and join the new group The Virtual Pew, at MySpace. Become a part of a different kind of Christian group, check out the page for more information,all welcome, including those who are not followers of Jesus.

Click to visit the Virtual Pew Website and become a part of that ministry.

Click to subscribe to my blog

Click to visit and join our sister group at MySpace Hollywood Jesus.

Click to visit Mary Jane Furches' new MySpace Page

Now for those that do not know, make sure you check out the numerous articles and blogs by checking out the archives. If visiting The Virtual Pew or MySpace they are archived on the left hand side of the page. Scroll down to where you see newer or older listed under archives and then click there. There are hundreds of postings so make sure to check out the archives. You can also contact me for a free e-book pre edit version of The Keystone Kid at mike@thevirtualpew.comYou can visit http://www.thevirtualpew.com/ and on the front page down on the left side you sill see our store. Your purchase provides needed funds to The Virtual Pew. If you do not see something to purchase you can click on the search engine, (do not put anything in the search box at this time). You will be taken to Amazon where you can search for anything you desire. Hopefully you will consider a gift to The Virtual Pew.

Now I get asked this quite often, Can we repost your blogs or articles? The short answer to that is, what an honor that you would ask, and by all means, spread the word.Here is our contact information

The Virtual Pew
P.O. Box 17731
Wichita, KS 67217

Click on the following links to learn more about The Virtual Pew

Donations to The Virtual Pew

The Virtual Pew

The Virtual Pew Blog

Personal Furches Web Site

Mary Jane Furches MySpace Page

Mike Furches MySpace Page

Mike Furches MySpace Blog

Hollywood Jesus

Reviews With Mike

The Virtual Pew Sermons

The Virtual Pew News

MySpace Hollywood Jesus Group

MySpace The Virtual Pew Group

The Virtual Pew Live Radio Web Page

To Subscribe to The Virtual Pew Live Feed

Saturday, December 26, 2009

The Day After Interview With Santa

To see the news story vido which opened up the doors for this exclusive interview, click here.

I had the opportunity yesterday, Christmas Day to sit and visit with the Jolly Old Elf Santa himself. He was tired, but had recently seen a television report of me being Santa for the Homeless in Wichita and contacted me about how he appreciated that effort. The initial conversation was intended to be brief, but after a few moments he invited me to fly up with him to The North Pole to have an exclusive interview regarding the yearly events, and of the things to come along with desires for people in the future. I was honestly surprised at the seriousness of the interview, and although it wasn’t intended, there were some key spiritual themes that came out. The following are some key highlights of that exclusive interview.

Mike: Santa, after such a busy night you seem to be pretty refreshed, how do you do it?

Santa: It isn’t as bad as some people think it is. I sometimes think there is an assumption that I still live in the Stone Age or something. We have adapted and learned to use technology in the delivery of gifts. While I don’t want to give out too much, we have help with a lot of the gift giving. I don’t have to visit every home like I used to and the willingness of others to take on the spirit of Christmas makes it easier. I have a lot of loved ones providing way beyond what I used to.

Mike: So it is kind of like others are taking on the persona of Santa?

Santa: Exactly! It isn’t that far from what you and your church did when you took gifts to various families’ on Christmas Eve. Unfortunately though, we live in a world where there seems to be more need than ever. It is critical that other groups, especially the churches take on and do more. We already loose out on helping so many people who need just basic things each year.

Mike: Interesting, why would you say the churches need to do more and can you tell us more about how we are loosing out?

Santa: Well it is like this, the church you see should see and understand the seriousness and message of Christmas. I think people forget I was a bishop in the church. It was the love and life of Jesus Christ that drove me to do what I do and did. As a child this started early, when I saw a family with three daughters who were going to be sold into slavery, and likely ultimately prostitution. I realized that in my abundance, I couldn’t sit around and do nothing. I couldn’t just walk by knowing I had the means to help this family out. It was over the course of 3 years that I decided to throw in the money in secret to help so this family wouldn’t have to sell the daughters into slavery. They could have enough money to pay the marriage dowry which was the custom in the day. While throwing in that first batch, it fell into a stocking that was hanging by the chimney to dry. That is how that custom came about. I wanted to do it in secret to make sure God got all of the glory and to keep the family from being embarrassed. It wasn’t just my desire to help though; it was my desire to love as Jesus commanded us and is told by the Apostle John in the book of 1st John in the Bible.

What we are loosing out on is the joy it brings us to give to others. Sometimes people ask me why I am always so happy. Well, the truth is, I am not always happy, but I find myself happiest when I am giving and helping others in need. The sharing of life, the giving of ones self to help another is what truly brings joy. You know my faith is still really important to me. Jesus said that when we give to someone who is among the least, we are giving to him. The Bible goes on to even say if we see someone in need and don’t provide for them, especially if we have the means, then the love of God does not dwell within us. The Bible commands us to share God’s love with others.

So many people think we do this by just telling others about Jesus, yet if we look at the early church, the church I studied on trips to the Holy Land and in the study of Christianity in Alexandria, I saw the early church took this practice of giving and helping others, even those outside of the faith seriously. It is why in the book of Acts it says no one associated with the body had need. Now think about that, while many may think the early church only consisted of followers of Jesus, it simply isn’t true. There were people searching for truth who also lived in these family community groups who hadn’t fully made the decision to follow Jesus yet. While they technically were not a part of the church, they were as they lived among them and were searching for truth. We also know the early church on a regular basis helped meet the need of those around them in their communities. It was then, and still is now one of the early appeals of the church. It is unfortunate that so many that become dogmatic in their political views, seem to totally ignore the history of the early church.

Mike: So are you saying we are loosing out by not giving?

Santa: I am saying more than that, I am saying we have to on a regular basis share the real meaning of Christmas, and then from there, we have to share it in a complete way as we saw the early church do, and preach. We have to do more than tell people we love them, we have to show them by helping provide their needs.

Mike: Do you see a difference in the way world systems or governments get involved in this?

Santa: You bet I do, there is a tremendous difference. The problem though is that so many in the West assume that in the socialist systems of the world people rely solely on the government. The sad truth is that the churches in those countries seem to take their faith more seriously than those in the West. It isn’t that there are those in the West who doesn’t take their commitment seriously, but there are people around the world who practice the totality of their faith in the face of death. There are many in the West who practices their faith in the face of convenience. They seem to be more into their national politics than they are the practice of their faith and believe me, there is a huge difference in whether one practices faith in the face of death as opposed to convenience.

Mike: Interesting, so do you see the political systems having an impact on what Christmas is all about?

Santa: No, no, not at all, what I see is people who see it that way, but they have forgotten about this history of the church and the message of Jesus. Political systems have always, at least most always, been largely opposed to the message of Jesus. It is sad that many within the church even end up being more politically driven than spiritually driven. Of course when politics speak out against, harm, and hurt the people they are to serve, especially the poor and needy, the church has to speak out. History shows that the church changed many travesties. In your own country, its role in the abolishment of slavery, the civil rights movement, giving women the right to vote, and so much more was a part of the history of the church. It was the church who brought about the changes your society needed. To keep people from forgetting history, it was also many within the so called church who spoke out against the actual practice of faith. They were telling people that they needed to make sure they only preached the gospel and stay out of politics or even spoke out against the good some within the church were promoting. Unfortunately it was the critics then, and it is the critics now who discourage the followers of God to ignore the totality of the message. It is kind of like the faith and works argument I saw you were involved in. Some seem to ignore that you are talking about doing both. It is the same thing here, we have to talk about justice for the poor and needy, while at the same time acting for it in the name of God because it is ultimately God who gives complete and total liberty. So understand, it is not, nor has it ever been the political systems that drive the meaning of what Christmas is about. They influence it, but for those who know and practice the completeness of faith and action, message and serving, it is those people who will ultimately have an impact even beyond that of governments. Of course this at times comes at a temporary cost, but is not permanently lasting.

Mike: What kind of cost do you see this coming at?

Santa: Well to start of with look at Jesus. The powers that be at the time hated him. Look at Christians today who preach the complete message of loving and serving. You don’t have to go back far here, in your own civil rights movement you see people like Dr. King getting killed, you see churches getting bombed, you see even the homeless get labeled and discriminated against. Then there are the stereotypes towards the mentally ill. For the followers of Jesus who stand up against these types of injustices, they will in fact, have the powers that be and those that have been influenced by those powers ridicule them and try to publicly destroy their image and reputation, and even in some cases perpetuate harm in some way. The sad thing here is that some within the political systems are only using those in the religious community as pawns. The pawns seldom ever acquire royalty or equality, most of the time, they simply are used to advance and help the advances of royalty or the powerful. Just like in the game of chess, but the pawn is ore often than not the fool.

Mike: Wow, I didn’t realize how important these types of things were to you. Where does the drive come from?

Santa: Like I said earlier, before I was known of as Santa, I was Saint Nicholas but even before that, just Nicholas a follower of Jesus. I committed my life to serving the totality of Christ, especially the poor and needy, the orphan and the widow. Being the Patron Saint of Children and of Prisoners is something I cherish, not because of any recognition it has brought to me, but because of the influence and inspiration it has provided some to do the things I believe Jesus taught us all to do.

Mike: So what is the primary purpose you would want people to get from Christmas?

Santa: First of all to understand that for that child born in a manger, it didn’t end there, there is a cross and crucifixion that is a part of that story. The person Christmas is all about told each of us to take up our own cross and follow him daily. To follow Jesus means to follow him in all ways. When we bless ten, and only one comes back to say thank you, that doesn’t’ negate the importance of blessing the other nine. When we feed thousands, it doesn’t negate the fact that some of those fed are people who could care less about why we have fed them. Of course the message has to point back to Jesus, but our actions of following Jesus has to be the same of Jesus. He still washed the feet of Judas, even after he knew Judas was going to betray him. Any spirit that tells us to not listen to that message, likely isn’t the spirit of God because it is contrary to the message and life of Jesus.

Mike: What do you see regarding the future of Christmas?

Santa: I actually see for the immediate future, especially over the next year the potential for something positive if people think about it and get back to the roots. You see, as people who have had much, end up having little, they are reminded of the truly important things in life. They know about the simplicity of life and the importance of being loved. Nowhere is that love as complete as it is when it involves Jesus. If followers of Jesus, if the people of the planet see and understand that it is when they walk their talk that they have impact, people may continue to have less materially, but they will have more joy because they will have experienced ultimate love and purpose, but even more importantly, the hope that is provided by God and God alone.

Mike: Santa I usually ask folks I interview if there is anything they would like to share that they maybe haven’t shared before, how about it?

Santa: Hmmm, yea I have something Mike and thanks for asking this. I think people forget that the spirit of Jesus the change that Jesus brings about isn’t just a one day a year thing. The truth is we don’t even know for sure the day Jesus was born. I am honored that we celebrate his birth on December 25, because my birthday was on December 5. But the message we continue on isn’t about us, it is about those that God loved. The Bible speaks a great deal about the importance of helping those, loving those less fortunate. That message, and the message of challenging others to walk with Jesus needs to continue on every day of the year, yet sit back, listen and watch how quickly that message changes. Even now, I hear stories of people planning to indulge in self satisfaction parties where the celebration of the New Year is celebrated with the over indulgence of alcohol and raging parties to have a ‘good time.’ You will notice the desires of helping those in need are suddenly lost, the need to recognize the innocence of children is lost, instead what is important is a focus on self that is so self absorbing that people won’t care about the potential harm that can, and in fact will, come to innocents by intoxication and other self absorbed attitudes.

I want people to know and remember, the celebration of the birth of Jesus isn’t a one day thing, it is for those that follow him an everyday thing. Yet, when we follow Jesus, we need to follow his actions; otherwise, the words mean little. While being born again is important, in fact, critical, we break down the walls of communication when we show love and live with those we love; at that point people are open to the message. Jesus understood that, I only hope we do as well.

Mike: Santa, thanks so much for your time, I know you want to get some rest and I really appreciate you letting us see this side of you.

Santa: No problem Mike, the importance of getting out the complete message is worth it, even when we are tired. Too many of us make excuses, and I want to thank you for getting out this message and to those who adjust their lives accordingly. Now Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night.


Epilog: While we spoke about a number of other things, like the reindeer, the most requested toys and the like, it was clear where Santa wanted the discussion to go. I left the interview feeling good, knowing of my own need to do better. I think it is Santa’s desire we all do better. In contrast to the things we spoke about most, I hope I have included the majority of things Santa wanted me to focus on. The above is a small portion of our interview, but one I think opens up some new light on the person himself. Hopefully you enjoy what I have included here as much as I enjoyed the opportunity to provide it for you.

The following is a video of a little known Christmas Classic. While my wife has her own version on Youtube, I like this one a lot, a classic from Bing Crosby. Just click on the video to watch and listen, if the video don't appear, click on the following link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXWobKYLaPU


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